Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:33:43 -0700
From: CDC
Subject: Re: God Bless You Darwin!!!!!
To: Darwin Bedford <>

In response to your critic of my e-mail, you operate under the assumption that there is no God, then no matter what I say, it going to be non-sense to you. It seems to me that your mind is totally closed to this idea. Like I said in my e-mail, Jesus can be experienced in a personal way and I have experience him. He is not some historical relic, prophet, revolutionary, or mad man. I believe he is the Son of God. God can't be found by just logic and reason alone.
I felt that I made some valid points that you choose to ignore. Since you operate under the premise there is no God then you won't even give any consideration to my points even though they are logical. I feel that no matter how many well thought out apologetics I use they will be ignored because it challenges your believe system. It seems to me that you  are ignoring them because it protects your faith .
 I was taught in university that you have to think both sides of the coin before you can make a logical conclusion. All things being equal. 
When I made the comment about, "If there is no God or devil, then why is the world in such a mess"? What I meant was if there is only man, and man is running the show, why then don't we live in a Utopia? If there are only humans and no God or devil then everything is relative. We should have no war, pain, suffering, death, inequality or unhappiness because everything is relative and situational. There is no real right or wrong. No ethics. All is situational depending upon how I see it. I end up constructing my own reality. Therefore we should all be living in bliss. Imfortunely this is not how it is. So why isn't it like that? How do you account for this?
It says in the Bible that God created the world and it was good. I believe that humans were meant to have a personal relationship with God and this was broken when Adam and Eve sinned. Then Jesus was sent to earth to reconcile humanity to himself and be offered as a perfect sacrifice for sin.
I believe when God made all things they were good. The devil choose to rebel again God. A free choice on his part, not God's. He wanted worship and adoration. He wanted to be like the most height God. He choose the path of rebellion. Since Satan had the power of free choice he choose to sin. Just like humanity who choose to sin.
God would have known that Satan would turn bad. God would have known that humanity would turn bad. So why didn't he just not create them or destroy them before hand?
Then people could point there finger at God and say he is a tyrant or unjust. A celestial taskmaster who is waiting to jump on use as soon as we make mistakes. God would have just created human attomitomes for his pleasure, much like a pet.
 Since we live in a moral universe with freedom to choose, God permits it. If not he would have to destroy us. I would call into question a God who was free to choose but couldn't  or wouldn't give freedom of choose to his creation.
This would make him a tyrant or not all powerful since he could handle creation below him.
Since Satan is not all powerful, the best way to get back at God was to attack his creation. I believe we are seeing the result of this today. We have never lived in a time of such upheaval and unhappiness.
Human nature is flawed.
In my belief system Jesus is Lord. I have walked with God since 89 and have seen his marvelous work in my life. I have had my doubts and struggles but I can't deny his reality. My life is a testament to his really because of all the things he had done for me.
Forgive me if I make an assumption, but I guess you think I'm crazy. If so, then that's ok.
If you don't think I'm crazy but just been hood-winked then that's ok to. I know that I searched for truth for many years. I was once very hostile to the gospel and God. There was a time in my life when I was an atheist and actually almost nihilistic in my beliefs.
Thank you for answering my a-mail and giving your time to respond. I enjoy being able to debate the faith. Believe me, I respect your right and freedom of choice to believe there is no God. In return I want to feel respected for my right to believe there is a God.
---- Original Message -----
From: Darwin Bedford
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: God Bless You Darwin!!!!!

Dear CDC,

I can assure you that you have no worries upon death.  Your eternal destiny is non-existence.   It could be said that when you die you are at eternal peace because there is no life after death.  So relax, there is no possibility of unrest after you die.  If you believe that the Bible is the word of God then, yes, you have checked your brains at the door.  Because there is no God then everything said in the context of God being real is mere nonsense.  You have written an remarkable example of such nonsense.  I especially had to laugh when you said "If there is no God or devil then why is the world in such a mess?".  I can only conclude, since you belive in the Bible and that God made the devil, that you are saying that the world being such a mess is God's doing -- and if there was no God then the world would not be in a mess.  It just goes to prove that if you need Jesus as bad as you do then any amount of spin will go unnoticed in order to protect your belief system.

Darwin Bedford

At 03:33 PM 7/25/02 -0700, you wrote:
I was quite impressed that you would set up a web site to prorogate your believes and share them with the world. Now I would like to take a moment and share my believes with you.
I share in the faith of Christianity. I believe that Christianity in not religion, but a deep relationship(via faith) to Jesus. 
The bible teaches that when we accept him as our savior(I.e. asking forgiveness of our sins) and trusting him to save us from God's Wrath due to our sinfulness he will dwell in our hearts by his spirit and transform our lives as we submit to him. This is called the second birth and happens when we make that genuine commitment.
If this commitment is not heart felt then we are Christian in name only.
Christianity is not a rain coat, that a person just put on when there life heads into a storm.
People are under a misconception if they think Christ is just for a rainy day or a fire insurance policy against hell!!! No, Christ wants a personal, heart felt commitment, nothing less will be accepted by him.
Christianity is not a church, no one denomination is God's exclusive church.
Unfortunely, over many generations the mainstream church has become corrupted by heresy, worldliness, humanistic philosophy, politics, and the sinful nature. God's inspired word has been twisted and used to justify some of the most debastful, hateful, murderous, and genocidal acts in human history.
God looks at your heart not your denomination. Denomination is an invention of men that causes division.
Christianity is not a philosophy, but a powerful act act of God's grace.
While the Bible teaches an abundance of ideas, it clearly stated that a relationship with God is what required not just ideas.
Christianity is not the pope, but Jesus Christ glorified.
The church is run by a leadership. If this leadership is not in right relationship with God, it makes mistakes. We can see the result of these mistakes all through history.
As Albert Einstein said, "Keep the main thing, the main thing".
Unfortunately, we live in a society that is post-Christian and hates God. When I say God, I am referring to the most high God of the Old and New Testament. Not, a god of other religions of some pragmatic, self-constructed concept to justify our ends or a celestial Santa Claus. The world hates God because he is a threat to their way of life. People do not want to be told they are doing wrong or admit it. The Bible holds a mirror to each of us and asks us to look at ourselves and we do not like what is reflected back. They want a God who will tolerate all their sins and will not mess with their lifestyle. It is unacceptable that God should tell them what to do or they should submit to his teaching. Then people whine to God about the result of their decisions and blame him. God will honor your power to make a choice. If not we would be robots.
If there is no God or devil then why is the world in such a mess? I believe we have a conscious which makes us free moral agents. We choose right or wrong. The world is littered with the result of peoples decision making. The powers of light and darkness payouts in peoples lives every day and clash with one another resulting in both good and bad in the world.
If there is no God and this is fiction then why are people so resistant and afraid of it? If this is a grand fairy tale and Christian are self-deluded then what's the problem? Why does it bother you so much. Why do you feel you have the right way and need to come and correct use?
I myself have a university education in the liberal arts. One of the most skeptical and resistant to God. I have been trained in the way of logical/critical thought. I am not a Christian who checks his brains in at the door. I have given many hours of thought to my faith. In the end I realized that something's can not be explained but have to be taken in faith. Science can not prove the existence of God but nor can it disprove it either.
Atheism is also a religion because it is built on a belief system that there is not God. This is something that can not be proven using scientific standards, therefore a faith as much as mine.
On a personal leave Jesus is my rock. The world is hostile and unsure. Jesus gives my hope, purpose and meaning in my life other then the trivialness of each day. When people turn to money, sex, drugs, porn, capitalism, and the like, I turn to Jesus. He is the only one that will give true meaning and fulfillment to life.
If I am wrong and upon my death, I rot in the ground then it can be said I tried to live a righteous life. I tried to follow the Bible and make my influence in the world positive. Who can argue with that?
If I am right then my eternal destiny is secure and I have no worries upon death.