Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 23:07:49 -0800
To: "Terry *****"
From: Darwin Bedford <Darwin@atheists.net>
Subject: Re: response
Thank you, Terry, for encouraging me to continue. I too think the ensuing debate will be healthy and will ultimately lead to a positive result. Firstly, about the world resting on the back of an elephant -- it may have been a tongue in cheek way of admitting that they did not know the answer to the question and that the answer was not knowable by mortal man in later years, but at one point long ago there were villages of people who actually did believe the story. May I question your depth of historical knowledge -- Are you a historian?
I don't have any faith at all about what cosmologists are reporting about the beginning of the universe because I don't believe the universe had a beginning. However, I think that we should not double the problem by adding a God into the equation because now we need to know about God's beginning and his purpose of being. Any truthful inquiry regarding origins that leads the seeker to God is simply the seeker giving up and transferring and converting the inquiry into this god thingy just so that the damn question gets answered. Why not a God of Energy and a God of Mass and a God of Vacuum?
I profane and mock a being who does not exist in the hope that people get that I do not fear this being because it is obvious that I do not believe that such a being exists. Let me make distinguish for you that it is not God that I am blaming for the sorry mess on this planet, it is the believing in gods by people that contributes to the sorry mess. You say that your "God created the spiritual laws, just as he did the physical laws" and in doing so you jump from science to your religious teaching. The spiritual laws that you speak of evolved along with the social animals that they are applicable to.
Your analogy of voting to repeal gravity is a perfect example of your flawed logic.
If the real question is: "Am I a cosmic accident or was I designed and created for a purpose?" then who is asking the question -- God himself?
Personally, I wouldn't study Romans chapter one unless I believed it was God's word. Please seriously consider the logical trap that you have placed yourself in. Since you seem concerned with logic, I would be interested in hearing from you how you logically went from "ok, there must be God" to "it's the Bible that contains truths about God".
At 12:46 PM 1/31/02 -0400, you wrote:
I wish I had time to respond to all of the misguided ideas promoted on your web site. As much as I find much of the content childish and tasteless and the arguments lacking rigor, I will encourage you to continue, because I think the ensuing debate will be healthy and will ultimately lead to a positive result.
People used to say the world rested on the back of an elephant as a tongue in cheek way of admitting that they did not know the answer to the question and that the answer was not knowable by mortal man. To suggest that they actually believed this shows a serious underestimation of historical human intelligence.
Most of today's top cosmologists freely admit that they are no closer to a scientific understanding of the origin of the universe than they were a thousand years ago. As we learn to see farther and farther into the far reaches of the COSMOS, astronomers are continually revising their theories to fit their observations. Here is a quote from a recent article by Alan H. Guth and Paul J. Steinhardt: "Cosmologists are now attempting to understand the history of the universe back to 10(-45) seconds after its beginning. (At even earlier times the energy density would have been so great that Einstein's general theory of relatvity would have to be replaced by a quantum theory of gravity, which so far does not exist.) Then they go on to develop a theory of origins supported by this non-existent theory! It takes more faith to believe this nonsense than to believe in an all-powerful God.
Any truthful inquiry regarding origins will lead the seeker to God. Many of history's (and todays!) greatest scientists are devout believers (read "in six days" edited by john f. ashton PhD).
Why do you profane and mock a being who does not exist? And why do you blame a non-existent being for the sorry mess that we have created on this planet? You seem to assume that if God had created us, he would have made us automatons, unable to control our own destiny. Why would you make this assumption? If that is not your assumption then place the blame for our mistakes where it belongs, on us! God created the spiritual laws, just as he did the physical laws. if we break the spiritual laws (hate our neighbour, etc.), then we must suffer the consequences. If you jump off a tall building, will you blame God for the gravitational result when you hit the ground? Of course not! The spiritual laws are just as immutable as the physical laws!
You say that current statistics support that there may soon be a "ciritical mass of non-believers" that will trigger a paradigm shift. This is a perfect example of your flawed logic. You may as well say that if we had a referendum and enough people voted in favor, we could repeal gravity.
The real question has nothing to do with the opinions of the majority. The real question is:
"Am I a cosmic accident or was I designed and created for a purpose?"
I will be praying that you will seriously consider this question with an open mind and an unencumbered spirit. Study Romans chapter one.