To: <darwin@atheists.net>
Subject: Comments...
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:13:21 -0500

Hello!

Somehow or other, I was trying to get to some government pages and your site popped up. So, after reading it and going through some of the feedback you have received, I thought I'd write you some comments. Maybe you've received email like this before, i don't know, but none the less...

First of all, I'm not out to convince you of anything - you believe whatever you want to believe, and if I could logically or academically convince you of something, no faith would be required and it would cease to be such. Instead, it would become either fact or scientific discovery. No matter what your faith is, you still have a belief, even if it is that there is no God - that's your faith. Even evolution is a faith, and if I may add, a slowly changing and evolving one itself. I speak as a Specialist in Human Biology University graduate who had to study evolution for years. I am currently in the scientific field, in medical research, and believe you me, there are thousands of very well learned and scientific minds who not only disagree with many of the premises of evolution, but also believe in the existence of God. You're right - some people believe it because that's the way they've been brought up. But many Christians have faced "crises of belief" - periods in which faith and what you believe, Christian or not, is questioned and doubted. You're wrong about one thing. Christianity does not discourage the pursuit of knowledge. It does not discourage doubt or questioning the teachings and doctrines it professes. In fact, through out the Bible, we see examples of people doubting God, and in the New Testament, thinking and questioning and knowing what you believe and why you believe it is not only encouraged, but commended and instructed. It is unfortunate that the church has a pretty pathetic history, and that this is what most people are aware of, or stereotypically think of when they think of Christianity. Christianity is not the church, or the pope, or the examples or precedents they set. I would like to believe that we are a little bit more open minded than being incapable of looking beyond the messenger or carrier to the source for the truth.

Ultimately, there can only be one truth, even if that truth is that there is no truth. Bear with me - I'll try to explain. Every religion, every faith, professes to be the truth. And in doing so, every faith contains elements that are necessarily mutually exclusive of all other faiths. If not - if, say, faith A contained no mutually exclusive elements from faith B - then one would only be a faction, sect or subset of the other, and so would not be a different faith. So, you need to decide for yourself what you believe to be this truth - and then live with the consequences, whether you're right or wrong. I dont' know if you're familiar with Blaise Pascal - a famous french logician and mathematician - who believed in God. You know what his logic was? Basically that if there is no God - if that's the truth - and I have lived my life believing in his existence and you've lived yours believing in his non-existence, then at the end of it all, neither one of us has gained or lost a thing. However, if there turns out to be a God, then I have lost nothing, and you have lost everything. Of course, this isn't a good enough reason to believe in God, but it's something to consider. What direction your life takes after that is again dependent on which God you choose to believe in, again because they're all mutually exclusive. For me, personally, I was brought up in a Christian home, but was never discouraged from thinking about things. In fact, being in the scientific field, thinking is somthing that practically requires no effort - it happens, whether I want it to or not! But the more I studied science, biology, world religions and philosophy, the more Christianity made sense. You may not believe that it is possible to "experience God", but it would be impossible for you to say that you are 100 percent sure He does not exist. And if the God of the Bible does indeed exist, then it is necessarily possible to experience Him.

You write:

"If God can make everything and has the power to make anything happen at any time then why can't God make another son?"  Why do people feel that God sacrificed his only son for us when he is capable of creating any number of sons?  It is also interesting to note that God has not ever admitted to having any daughters.

Whatever questions you have, any answer I give from a Christian perspective will seem like either a cop out or a pat answer to you. The point is, if I could answer all your questions about why God did things a certain way, I'd be a genius who knew it all. I hate to disappoint you, but I'm not. The answers to many questions is that we simply don't know why God chose to do things the way He did. But so what? If I choose to withhold information from someone for whatever reason - and I have the right to do so - do I cease to exist? Am I then illogical and stupid? Of course not. God sacrificed his only son not because he was incapable of creating another, but because the one He did create was an incarnation of Himself, and He chose to do this once, so that humanity would have a chance to reconcile itself to Him on an individual and personal level. Christ was not just another creation of God's - He was God incarnate, He was how God decided to finally bridge the gap that separated me from Him. There's a lot more history to this than what you mention on your page, but to summarize, separation from God, who is the source of life, necessarily means death. But, instead of simply allowing me to die in my separation from him, Christ died on my behalf, to make right what I had done wrong, that the bridge between God and I can be rebuilt. No human could have done it for me, because any other person would have also been separated from God. It would have been like the blind leading the blind. The only solution was a perfect being taking my place. And since none is perfect other than God, that was the only solution - God in the flesh, taking my place. And because of the power of God, He only needed to do it once for all. So yeah, He could have created many sons, He could have revealed himslef in multiple Christs, but there would have been no point, reason or purpose. He chose to do it in a masculine form - so what? You can't just take an instance like that completely out of historical and cultural context either, and I don't have the time right now to explain the whole Jewish tradition concerning gender. Suffice it to say that it's God's choice how He chooses to reveal himself, and for the cultural and historical context, it makes perfect sense. Also, God admits to having sons and daughters in that he calls those people you have termed "believers" as such.

 

You write:

Believers are taught not to question the word of god. 

I've already addressed this - it's simply not true, and based on a stereotyped image of Christianity. Do you know why the reformation started in the the late 15th early 16th century? One of the hallmarks of the reformation was the making of the Bible available to the general population in the vernacular of the time, so that they could read and find out for themselves. If Christians were encouraged not to question and simply believe, there would be no Bible studies, no distribution of Bibles, no theological institutes to understand the Bible. Christians would not be attending schools and universities where the core and fundamental beliefs of everything you might adhere to is constantly challenged and questioned. I'm only 25 years old, and have worked with public school kids, high school kids, university students and working adults in various professional and non-professional fields. Believe me, questions and debates are very alive and well, and kids are not only encouraged to question, they're also encouraged to find out.

 

You wirte:

God is responsible for creating everything in the spiritual realm as well.  One of the entities that God created in the spiritual realm is the "Devil."  There are two alternative worlds in the spiritual realm.  The Kingdom of Heaven is one and Hell is the other one.  God rules over the Kingdom of Heaven and the Devil oversees Hell.  Sometimes the Devil can make an appearance in the physical world by possessing a person's body and making them do crazy shit.  Now don't die from laughing just yet -- there is more.

The philosophical questions surrounding good and evil are too complex and time consuming to go through right now (if you're even reading this far!). However, if God exists then there is a "spiritual realm", and it's not crazy to believe that a fallen, evil creation may also exist. Point 1: you can't say that such things are impossible. Therefore, point 2: if a spiritual realm exists, you can't say that you understand how it operates. So sure, go ahead and laugh at whatever you want - just remember that your opinion is not necessarily truth, and that you show your ignorance by laughing, for you're laughing at things that may exist, and that you don't understand. You don't have to believe it - but the very fact that our understanding is so limited should make us prudent in our interpretation of potential reality.

 

You write:

The Believers believe in every word of the Holy Bible--and here is why.  The Bible repeatedly states that you will not die when your physical body is damaged to the point where it becomes lifeless.  No--what happens is that your spiritual component, or your "soul," will transfer to the spiritual realm and will be judged by your maker at the gates protecting the Kingdom of Heaven.  If it is determined that you believe in Jesus then you (or at least your soul) is permitted to live forever (eternity) in the presence and care of God himself--as a happy servant within the Kingdom of Heaven.  If, however, it is apparent that you do not believe in the word of Jesus, your spiritual component will be directed to live forever in Hell where you will be a slave to the Devil. 

Well, I've already talked about this - those who have been reconciled to God, who have accepted that Christ did what He did to bridge that gap, and who therefore live lives that reflect this (it's one thing to say that you believe, it's another to show that you believe - talking the talk is not the same as walking the walk) can of course spend the rest of their lives with Him, because they've been reconciled to Him. Those who don't - well, they had their chance, and they made their choice, so don't go blaming God for your own actions!

 

You write:

This process is referred to as "meeting your maker."  I wouldn't worry too much about the experience itself.  My calculations show that even if God dedicated all of his time meeting the dead, you would only get to meet him for half of one second.  There are 56 million deaths occurring annually and only 32 million seconds in a year. 

Normally, I would have taken this as a joke! You can't be serious??! In making this calculation, you not only assume that God exists, but also that you know how he functions. You mention that He's a spirit, then treat him like a physically and temporally confined being! You're mixing what you have called the "spiritual realm" with the temporal and physical realms, and that, my friend, is a logical fallacy, whether or not they exist.

 

You write:

I have not yet learned whether God manifests himself as Jesus the son, or as God the father, or just as a holy ghost while in Heaven.  He can be all three at the same time with the powers that are claimed of him.  Although that would be weird watching him talk to himself.

The nature of God is a bit of a mystery that any Christian will admit is such. We don't understand the Trinity, simply because, again, we live in a physical and temporal world. How many dimensions do you think exist? Again, you can't mix up dimensions, or realms, when you not only don't know their characteristics, you don't even know how many there are or what they are!

 

You write:

According to the word of God, Jesus is supposed to be returning to Earth.  When he does so, the Earth will be totally destroyed and all of us will ascend into the spiritual realm where we will be judged.  Those of us that trust in Jesus will be rewarded with eternal life in Heaven, however, those of us who don't will be turned over to the Devil and will burn in his fire and will die a second death.  But not for two thousand years has Jesus returned!  It seems that God is insensitive to the countless generations of Believers that have waited throughout their lives for his return.

Again, you try to fit God into what YOU want Him to do. Maybe God is waiting for you to make certain decisions! You seem to be more concerned about the believers who have waited for Him, but they're not concerned. Besides, there's a much bigger theological debate here than what you mention. What do you think has happened to those believers who have already died? Are they in limbo? Are their spirits stagnant? Don't you worry about believers, because they're not too worried about it themselves. They look forward to it, perhaps they even wait for the return in some cases, but if it comes, what will be your excuse - "I was thinking about all those poor believers who waited in vain?" Well, they didn't wait in vain, because God never said to wait for him, or to expect Him in our life times. He wants us to go on with a life that glorifies Him, not worry about when the end of the world is coming. And here, again, people are affected by a stereotyped image they have formed from exposure to particular people and their teachings. If you want to know what Christianity is really all about, don't take it from me or other people - go read it for yourself!

 

You wirte:

The above beliefs comprise what is know as the "Gospel" or "the story of Jesus."  This story has dominated culture and infiltrated the laws of the developed world for two thousand years.  However, the Internet is ablaze with opposition to the faith.  Many people, especially the young, are no longer willing to swallow this story hook, line and sinker.

Neither should they. Opposition has always existed, so that's nothing new. Go visit any University Christian group, or Youth with a mision rally, and you'll see just how wrong you are about young people. It's really simple - faith is faith, and we all believe in something. Young or old, we all have faith in something, and there's no way around that.

 

You write:

Some people are prepared to forget that religion was ever embraced.  Fundamental religious beliefs are definitely becoming passé.  Not only is Jesus a no-show but the Pope is Humpty Dumpty.  Christianity has fallen off the wall and is colliding with the ground.  As it comes apart at the seams, other major religions will disintegrate with it.  There is much evidence that people are dissatisfied and dismayed with religion today.  Congregation counts are falling off and people are expressing concern that the word of God is no longer politically correct within today's society.

This is only a concern if God exists for our purpose, in which case we have created God, and simply change Him when He no longer fits the mould. If God exists, perhaps it is we who are straying from the path as He sits there and shakes His head in pain. Fundamental religious belief is by no means becoming passe. Do you know what the Middle East crisis is all about? Besides tradition, religion is also at the very core of it. Christian Aid and Christian Children's Aid groups like World Vision are doing anything but declining. Our changes here don't alter objective and ultimate truths. They simply create illusions of truth with which we become more comfortable.

 

You write:

People are filtering into two camps of religious acceptance.  Generally speaking,  Believers blindly accept the faith of their ancestors, and Thinkers like to doubt everything and learn what underlies every stone.

I hope you know see the error of this statement. Since the 16th century, believers have NOT been blindly accepting - some may indeed do that, but don't generalise and promote a stereotype!

 

Perhaps religion in the organised sense has taken some crime like qualities. But the Christian faith is not organised religion, it's not the church, it's not the pastors or the history that the church has given us. It's a relationship with a loving God who has done it all to bring us to Himself - He died for us. And now, he waits for us to come to Him. A relationship is two sided - He did his part, and now waits for us to do ours. The choice is mine. The choice is yours. Do with it as you please.

 

I congratulate and thank you for reading till the end!