Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:34:02 -0800 (PST)
From: rfr sfdfds <smithj******@yahoo.com>
Subject: Illogical
To: Darwin@Atheists.net

The following statements are not based on any religion

or scripture but PURE LOGIC. They are not based on

what is said in any Bible. There are two logical

arguments in favor of believing in GOD that I would

like your comments on becuase to this day, the

greatest atheist philisophers including top university

professors of logic and philosophy cannot answer nor

refute (before you read on, realize I do not endorse

any religion, again, I simply present these based on

logical arguments):

#1 Whether GOD exists or not I do NOT KNOW. However,

it is better to believe and be wrong than not believe

and be wrong. This is 100% true and irrefutable.

Trust me, the best logicians have tried unsuccessfully

to invalidate the claim. Given that it is valid, if

you say you still don't believe, you are esentially

admitting that you are stupid because you are not 100%

certain either way...the logical route is to simply

believe given the statement.

#2whether creation or big bang happened I do not know.

However, I do know that if I came accross a precision

swiss watch in the woods, I would not assume it

evolved this way nor assume it came about through any

big bang. The precision involved in a PERFECTLY

WORKING watch, where every part must work in perfect

sync, is just so great that the probablility that it

just all came about by chance is almost zero.

Therefore, a watch maker is assumed to have made the

watch. Now think how many more million of times more

complex a human is than a watch. If the probability

of a watch coming together with no help watsoever is

virtually zero, what more a human. It is therefore

logically inferred that there is some sort of "human

watch maker"

You can try all you like. The above are valid and

have no counterexample. By the way, even though you

don't believe in God, you could show a bit more class

and not wear a shirt with a guy throwing away the

cross. I do not believe and I don't wear such things

simply because I respect others. Perhaps that is

another reason to believe in God, it promotes respect

for others if NOTHING else. In other words, even if

religion is 100% JUNK at least they treat others

respectfully which is not what one can say for you.

* * *

From: Darwin Bedford

I submit this article extracted from Roedy Green's post at http://mindprod.com/god.html

Holy Blackmail

Several people have tried to persuade me to become Christian with a pragmatic argument that goes like this:

Let's assume that it is very unlikely that God exists, say 1%. You should still believe in Him anyway and follow Christian dogma for purely practical reasons. There are four cases:

If you believe in Him and He does not exist, what do you lose? You just die and nothing happens.
If you believe in Him and He does exist, you have eternity in Heaven.
If you don't believe in Him and He does not exist, you just die and nothing happens.
If you don't believe in Him and He does exist, you will rot in Hell for eternity.

You come out ahead if you believe, in two of the four cases.

I counter this argument by saying:

I am interested in the truth, not toadying to some imaginary despot. This argument is roughly the moral equivalent of a scientist falsifying his findings in hopes of receiving a bribe from a tobacco company. It is intellectual dishonesty. Poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge (1772-1834) in his Aids To Reflection put it this way; "He who begins by loving Christianity better than truth, will proceed by loving his own sect or church better than Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all."
If this argument persuades you, then you should become a Muslim. Islam offers far greater after death rewards to the faithful and far more terrifying tortures for the non-believer that Christianity does. Jehovah is a wimp compared with Allah. Read the Qur'an if you are skeptical. I did and had nightmares for months.
The Greek philosopher Epicurus (circa. 341-270 BC) put it this matter-of-fact way: "Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do?"
Every religion offers these punishments and rewards to its rejectors and adherents, including the worship of Wotan and Zeus and the religions of the Indians of the Amazon. How do you decide which is the true religion? They all sound equally improbable, bogus and silly.
If you follow the tenets of Christianity you would probably lead a more evil life than you would otherwise. You would be judgemental. You would discriminate against gays and probably blacks. You would lie to people about the best ways to cure disease. You would spread superstition and lies that are part of the Christian faith. You would indirectly kill children by blocking sex education about AIDS and birth control. For a more detailed list of the evils of Christianity, see the essay on why Christianity should be combatted. As an extreme example, Jeff Daumer said grace before consuming his murder victims.
If you believe in God, you life will actually be more miserable than if you do not. Why? If you believe in God, you will tend to mope around praying -- wondering why God is ignoring you. You will waste time waiting for God to do things only you can do for yourself. If you don't believe in God, you will be much more practical and self reliant. You won't be saddled with an unrealistic sense of entitlement. You cannot very well be angry with God if you don't believe in Him.